I voted leave part 2

If you want to say something that doesent fit anywhere else!
MAIN WEBSITE: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 07 May 2019, 10:14

Fair points but you have the same issues if we go to a general election which is the only other option. I've got no desire to see Corbyn in power it would cause even greater divide than Brexit.

So much is reliant upon the difference between an Act of Parliament which writes a binding law or non binding in the case of the referendum and political statements which was what Cameron said, leaflets and manifestos, these have no legal status and non binding and ignored.

Thinking about it last night there might be another way to force parliament to deliver. Whilst the referendum bill wasn't binding the legislation passed by Parliament to trigger article 50 was. I haven't researched the wording but in theory parliament not enacting it could breach ECHR and your human rights. If you took the case to the ECJ they might rule that that bill has to be completed. If they did technically government should comply but there is the small problem that our Supreme Court has the power to accept or reject ECJ decisions if they believe that the decision is wrong. Obviously Leave lied on a number of things us being controlled by the ECJ being one of them.

It would need legal research but could be a way to force a no deal Brexit. Slightly perverse having to use a Council of Europe system to force an exit :) Worth an ask on social media to see if anyone has considered that option.
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 07 May 2019, 10:18

You seem to think that bits of paper or laws etc overule the will of the nation. They dont. Those are technicalities in the scheme of things. polititions dont make the rules, the will of the people does. They work for us. Not the other way around in spite of the brain washing that seems to work on many people.

The law/rule/court is nice and all, but if enough people feel aggrieved and refuseto give away our rightful sovereinty then they are irrelivant. And will be walked all over by force if needed.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 07 May 2019, 11:36

Despite us not having a constitution our democratic process of law making has worked for centuries. We have a representative democracy and our representatives make the laws. Without that system you have anarchy. As individuals we have no method of making any law other than via influencing MP's. You will be banging your head against a brick wall for a long time if you think that there is any other way other than influencing parliament or changing how our democracy works.

The only way change can happen is to fix the political system but that needs action not crying that you voted to leave.

It is pointless continuing this as there is no real solution, eventually May will wear down enough MP's or we have a new Tory leader who tries to rewrite the withdrawal agreement and finds it impossible and the EU give up and we get a no deal exit. Either way it won't have been influenced by either of us.
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 07 May 2019, 12:48

Without that system you have anarchy.


And if you ignore the majority that voted LEAVE you will have the same and an awful lot of anger. Dont be surprised when farages EU election shows the true will, and may get the boot. And then he is starting a new political party...
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby sad_vampire » 08 May 2019, 03:10

I think rather differently to you both.

If we can't leave the EU, then I'm quite willing to help remove the EU entirely.

Sponsoring some frogs in yellow is fun

Sponsoring some Catalan seperatists is fun

Encouraging some Italians to be themselves is fun

Sending Farage back to the EU again to undermine & annoy them is fun

Essentially the EU elections will act like a second referendum, although it will have a Brexit option, unlike the losers referendum proposed by remoaners.
sad_vampire
 
Posts: 88
Joined: 12 Sep 2014, 00:19
Location: Surrey, England

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 08 May 2019, 10:45

When the traitors in parliment who are 80% remainers, finally get their 2nd referendum, 'peoples vote' it wont include a leave option.

It will be aranged in a way they can only win. Mays 'deal', which is remain. Remain, which is remain, and no deal which is going to be 1/3rd the vote since they have split the leave vote in half.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby greybeard » 08 May 2019, 10:47

In my own little way, regardless of whether Brexit happens ( proper Brexit, not May's pretend one ) I will continue to work in every way possible towards the total collapse of the EU. It is a cancer growing on the body of Europe and like all parasites will continue to suck the lifeblood of the individual nations until it is destroyed completely.

Hopefully many others will do the same. For our children.
greybeard
 
Posts: 662
Joined: 28 Aug 2014, 20:15
Location: Dorset, UK

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 08 May 2019, 10:53

At least half of the EU feel the same way. But most of the are net recipients in cash terms, and their cities are empty while they can go to the richer countries for more money, hence the immigration problem. This IS the problem. And it is caused by the very socialistic nature of the EU.

Joining many very different countries, economies and cultures and religions (turkey?!!) as one, with a single currency, central control and open borders cant ever work. Its why the med countries are bankrupt, why the richer countries have to bail them out etc.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 11 May 2019, 22:14

User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 12 May 2019, 11:04

Interesting to know that in the latest large pole by the observer, farage is now ahead of both the labour and conservatives combined. And the smaller parties are nowhere worth bothering about.

And I also agree with this https://news.sky.com/story/trumpism-is- ... e-11714025

The real changes in uk politics are yet to come. Fueled by the fact that parliment think they are in charge, and can ignore the will of the people. As I said a long time ago. I have faith that the system will work as intended even if a few eggs need to get broken first. Eventually.

The farage party, has the BBC favourite paper, the extreme left Guardian, in full panic mode here! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... and-labour

Vote BREXIT party in 2 weeks. 23rd May.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby greybeard » 12 May 2019, 14:14

Anyone who supports the EU over Brexit needs to watch these to see exactly type of people they are supporting!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... ors-part-1



https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... ors-part-2
greybeard
 
Posts: 662
Joined: 28 Aug 2014, 20:15
Location: Dorset, UK

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 12 May 2019, 16:22

Apparently the BBC think I have to sign in...




youtu.be/IV3l3pspeUg


youtu.be/8aCEABM712o
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby greybeard » 12 May 2019, 16:26

:thumbup: :thumbup:
greybeard
 
Posts: 662
Joined: 28 Aug 2014, 20:15
Location: Dorset, UK

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 12 May 2019, 18:00

I watched both parts last week and didn't know what was worst, the arrogance of the EU or incompetence of the UK with Davis AWOL and May not having consulted the DUP before going to an important meeting. You could see why we got nowhere and 3 years were wasted. Embarrassing to think that these clowns represent us. They needed to counter the EU arrogance but hadn't got a clue what they wanted. Pathetic
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 12 May 2019, 18:09

Davis wasnt 'allowed' to do any real negotiation. He had to throw away all his cards and then accept a 40 billion bill, befor he could begin. With the stupid morons in parliment telling them that they wouldnt accept no deal. And treason remainer may telling him to push her rediculour remainer deal. So he walked.

You couldnt imagine a more useless bunch in parliment. Its like going to a car dealer, and saying up front you dont care what the price is, and you are not leaving till he sells youi it. Obviuously its not going to be cheap! Likewise, brown, told all the markets he was going to sell x amount of gold, weeks before. So obviously the price fel like a rock! You honestly couldnt make it up. These people are absolutely clueless.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 12 May 2019, 18:19

I don't think the no deal pressure came until later, Davis was just incompetent. All the rhetoric about how easy it would be to get a good deal soon blown away when he realised that the EU weren't going to move and talk future relationship. We have the most inept politicians ever, they almost make Labour governments of the 70's look competent.
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 12 May 2019, 18:38

Interesting as a remain type of footnote only. Because WE NEVER VOTED for any deal. We voted to leave. Completely. There was no special 'soft' brexit on the form I voted on. Just leave (and we all know what leave means*) . Leave WON.

* We were told endlessely and got a leafelet through the door from the gov, saying EXACTLY what damage it would do, that it was an economic and job disaster, that it would mean out of customs union and single market, and on and on. And we voted to leave the damned EU ANYWAY!!! We were told it WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED. We were told no second goes. We were told that iut would be a once in a generation referendum.

Because some things are way more importand that the economics, passports, or mobile phone costs. And that was NOT what it was about, and not why we voted.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 12 May 2019, 19:04

Almost all the Brexit high profile figures mentioned how easy it would be to get a deal on trade pre vote. Davis, Fox, Farage swiftly changing tack as they realised that it wasn't going to be easy. Water under the bridge now as they are too inept to do better than May's deal. Even worse Farage will claim he can.
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 12 May 2019, 20:51

Almost all the Brexit high profile figures mentioned how easy it would be to get a deal on trade pre vote.

It depends what you mean by deal. I agree, it WOULD have been easy if we did what we actually voted for. That meant leave completely. Then have a year or maybe longer to organise a TRADE DEAL only, afterwards.

Why? Because fritz will get laid off, if he cant sell us his cars, and 1001 other things. As will every business in the EU. Remember we buy more of their goods than they do ours. And remember too that theres ABSOLUTELY NOTHING STOPPING TRADE if we leave no deal tomorrow. Its just that a free trade deal is better for them and us. Thats what we sighned up to do, in the beginning. The common market. Leave side, repeatedly said they have nothing against a trade deal, but everything against a political union that we didnt ever agree to be a part of. May started by handing over all the goodies, 40 billion of them, and then parliment started with all the cant leave with no deal project scare bullshit 3 years ago totally weakening any bargaining power we ever had. Now that may got her remainer deal, they wont waste 3 years starting from scratch and who blames them.

So now the only way to leave, is no deal. Which is of course nothing of the sort. A planned and ready to go WTO terms deal.
We can negotiate a free trade deal IF the EU wish, later on. Theres no other way now after traitor may has organised here stupid new agreement. Which is basically remain, but called leave... That nobody wants.

Davis, Fox, Farage swiftly changing tack as they realised that it wasn't going to be easy. Water under the bridge now as they are too inept to do better than May's deal. Even worse Farage will claim he can.


He can. No deal is a massive improvement!!! Its also what every party agreed to when they signed and agreed article 50, and repeated by may over 130 times. But she is a remainer. And a lier. She has repeatedly said and promised one thing and done exactly the opposite. It was obviously planned to wast 3 years and cause as many issues as possible as a way to remain one way or another. She should be hanged. Or beheaded as a traitor to this country. Closely followed by all remain MPs. There will be a massive upheaval in politics, and we WILL get our exit from the EU sonner or ater, and all thise that betrayed us, will get what they deserve.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 13 May 2019, 10:21

No individual EU country stands to lose as much as us, our exports to EU £230bn, Germany who are the biggest selling to us £80bn. But it isn't just about the goods sold it is the movement of parts and sub assemblies like car engines and whether it is viable to assemble here, duty and bonded warehouse is a PITA for anyone bringing parts from the EU assembling here then selling back into EU. That needs clarifying now, you can't stop production and wait for a deal. Germany won't lose those car sales, we'll just pay more for German cars as the EU will pay more for UK made products. The question is whether the consumer will pay or switch to a different supplier. Personally I drive a UK made van and buy as much as I can UK made, sadly most Leavers I know are the opposite. Let someone else make Britain great again.

Farage is incapable of achieving anything, look at his record as an MEP, he was meant to represent the UK on the fishing committee, attended 1 out of 42 meetings. That sums him up, not bothered about doing what he can for our industry, just wants out of the EU but no idea what comes next. If May had delivered Brexit we'd never have heard of him again.
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 13 May 2019, 11:25

No individual EU country stands to lose as much as us, our exports to EU £230bn, Germany who are the biggest selling to us £80bn.

That wont change one bit. Why would you think it would?
Governments dont buy or sell anything. People, and companies do. And they still will. Only the way the paperwork is done changes to the same as that which we use to trade with the other 200 countries that are NOT in the EU. It will not stop my brother importing his chinese stuff into the UK and selling to europe for e.g. in any way. We discussed this last night. He is also british business, living in spain... He is in business doing all of this and is not even remotely concerned and wants a complete exit. It will make it easier to deal with other non EU countries to his benefit.

But it isn't just about the goods sold it is the movement of parts and sub assemblies like car engines and whether it is viable to assemble here, duty and bonded warehouse is a PITA for anyone bringing parts from the EU assembling here then selling back into EU. That needs clarifying now, you can't stop production and wait for a deal.

Its already been clarified. Theres absolutely no need to stop anything! Sub assemblies and part finished components are already shipped back and forth under wto with hundreds of countries without any issues. We can do a slightly better no paperwork deal later - which will happen because its in the EU countries interest as well as ours. A trade or reshipping deal of whatever kind it takes. And yes there will be a few losers. And winners. Tough. Thats part of leaving as we voted for.

Germany won't lose those car sales, we'll just pay more for German cars as the EU will pay more for UK made products. The question is whether the consumer will pay or switch to a different supplier. Personally I drive a UK made van and buy as much as I can UK made, sadly most Leavers I know are the opposite. Let someone else make Britain great again.

Cars here come from all over the world. That will continue. My van came from the US. My carers 4x4 came from korea. So what? If they sell less german cars here because of the price we dont lose, germany does. Its about to join many of the EU countries in resession already. So they will then want to do a trade deal. Or lose out. We get to choose. Australian cars, american tesla, or a japanese, or wherever. So a deal will rapidly get done.

Farage is incapable of achieving anything, look at his record as an MEP, he was meant to represent the UK on the fishing committee, attended 1 out of 42 meetings. That sums him up, not bothered about doing what he can for our industry, just wants out of the EU but no idea what comes next. If May had delivered Brexit we'd never have heard of him again.

Really? Farage is about to change our politics, parties, and the way it works for good. And the EU. And he was absolutely instrumental in waking up all the normals in society to the evils of the EU and a major reason we even had a referendum. So thats frankly bull. And if thats all he does thats all I want. OUT. He is probably the only politition in this decade that will be remembered in a generations time.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 13 May 2019, 14:20

Trade might continue as is just now, no-one really knows where it'll end up. Government realises the difficulty of WTO and has already published a lot of new duties in the event of no deal. It'll hit the consumer and they will make the decision, Germany could lose a lot of car sales but we won't know until we actually leave. Even then we still have the likes of Fox failing miserably at securing any new deals so until we get decent politicians we'll never really know if there is potential outside the EU . Chaos and not helpful to UK business until we get clarity.

If May delivers Brexit what use is a Brexit party? The EU won't reopen the Withdrawal Agreement so what would it actually have to do? We'll be out with nothing for Farage to do other than moan but he won't achieve anything, the deal will have been done and it definitely won't be the Brexit he wanted. Tory and Labour have failed themselves and will suffer because of it but voting for a Brexit party with no policy other than leave the EU which we will have done seems to be stupid. Lib Dems and Greens screwed as Remainers have no chance of getting back in so our political system is destroyed. Yes, we get political change but only because the existing ones have shown how useless they are and change was what we needed all along.
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 13 May 2019, 15:43

Dont understand why this does not compute. You keep repeating the same old scare stories from the never ending project fear.

Even then we still have the likes of Fox failing miserably at securing any new deals

We did not vote for a 'deal'. We voted to leave!!!
We dont want a deal unless its favourable. The EU insist on trying to tie us to one of their EU agreements which we voted to leave!!!
Remember the no deal is better than a bad deal that remainer may lied about? Well when it came to it, shge iunsisted on a bad deal.

so until we get decent politicians we'll never really know if there is potential outside the EU . Chaos and not helpful to UK business until we get clarity.

You do realise that the richest countries in EUROPE are not in the EU? yOU DO UNDERSTAND THAT 200 COUNTRIES THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF THE eussr are perfectly fine? You know, most of the world including places as small as iceland and as big as america and china?
You worry through project fear and ignorance. And we didnt vote to either stay in, partly stay in, or any deal!!!

If May delivers Brexit what use is a Brexit party?

A lot of use because mays 'deal' is not brexit in any way shape or form by a very long way.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 13 May 2019, 17:05

Actually I speak from personal experience, spent 25 years importing parts, making frames and exporting bikes. Been through the bureaucracy of carnets, bonded warehouse and time and hassle it puts on small business trying to manufacture. Also know that if we no deal an already expensive UK made product will go up 15% in Europe and that will definitely slow sales. Travelled extensively setting up distribution network and know that it is a lot easier in Europe and whilst potential exists elsewhere it is not easy, and it definitely wasn't because of our EU membership. All those rich emerging economies want to sell to us not us to them and if it was so great a potential why hasn't Fox signed them up? The EU hasn't limited UK trade, I never even thought about it when looking for distributors as I am sure other companies weren't bothered either. Whatever the outcome something will change, WTO rules mean duty which means higher prices, you pay more or switch to another brand/supplier. Government recognise this hence the non WTO duties. The EU will impose their rates of duty on UK made goods. All the previous are facts what isn't known is what impact it will have on sales. That is not project fear it is reality. We won't know until it happens what impact it will have but higher prices rarely boost sales, until I know what, if any, terms we leave on I'll defer judgement. We've had 3 years of this now and aren't any closer to knowing what will actually happen other than more words typed on forums or social media :)

If we didn't want a deal why were so many Leavers saying that it would be easy to get one? It is not even about a deal at the moment we are still stuck on the divorce settlement. And will end up paying even if we don't get a deal.

If May does deliver Brexit it is done, we are out albeit tied into a backstop and a few other things we shouldn't be. It won't be renegotiated we are stuck with it. The next part of the negotiating is future trade but AFAIK that doesn't need parliament approval so no place for Brexit party. No-one can change that, if she tries again with the Withdrawal Agreement next week and gets it through we are screwed and nothing either of us can do about that.
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 13 May 2019, 17:52

If we didn't want a deal why were so many Leavers saying that it would be easy to get one? It is not even about a deal at the moment we are still stuck on the divorce settlement. And will end up paying even if we don't get a deal.


Because may never wanted to leave. So she purposely screwed up all posibility of us leaving with a good deal on purpose. You think this 3 years wasnt planned? It is all designed to make it as hard as possible, and give the pro EU media time to brainwash the masses toill we can be forced to vote correctly. Only its not going to work.
She went there, and offered them 40 billion for no reason to begin with. Then parliment started with the we must have a deal bullshit because 80% of those are remainers.

So ask yourself, if the EU dont want us to leave, and they dont, and may has said she wont leave withourt a deal, and offered them 40 billion in return for nothing, why on earth would they offer us anythging? They want it to end up is a way that they are in control of us, and that preferably we dont leave at all. And they have no reason to offer any decent trrade deal, because we already said we were not leaving with no deal! So they can ask for anything, and refuse everything. Nothing to lose!

To get a decent deal we should have LEFT. Then when they realise that they have none of our money, and their exports to use are not selling, and they are shutting down factories, theres absolutely no doubt that they will do a trade deal. But that cant happen because we have been betrayed by the thick remainers that have never done a deal or run a business and that havent a clue.

Its was embarassing watching. It was like sending a 6 year old to buy a car. First he says how nice the car is, (wrong) then he says he is buying it regardless and wont walk away without a deal (wrong, and wrong). Then he gives the salesemen 40 billion. And then he asks how much he will do it for. They are totally retarded. They should have offered a trade deal, on decent equal terms. And then LEFT immediately with no deal. By now fritz would be on the phone offering a deal so the factories in germany were not on a 4 day week...

And so now, we are or have been screwed by the parliment and may, so no deal, and sort it out later is the only possible way to leave. And I do not frear that in any way.

If May does deliver Brexit it is done, we are out albeit tied into a backstop and a few other things we shouldn't be. It won't be renegotiated we are stuck with it. The next part of the negotiating is future trade but AFAIK that doesn't need parliament approval so no place for Brexit party. No-one can change that, if she tries again with the Withdrawal Agreement next week and gets it through we are screwed and nothing either of us can do about that.


The reason the brexiteers wont vote for mays deal is that its NOT done! It is a surrender doccument that leaves us in a worse position than if we had actually LEFT! So the first thing that must happen is that if mays deal gets through by all the remainers, then it has got to be overturned. And thenm we must leave properly. Read mays deal. Its a new version of staying in, its not leave in any way. It is not what anyone voted to do. And is worse than staying in.

So the brexit party will get in, and will gget us out properly if mays suirrender document gets through. Brexit party is essential. And I am a paid up member. And so is almost everyone I know, all done this week. He is going to destroy the labour and esp mays party for generations because she has betrayed the voters.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 13 May 2019, 18:30

If May's agreement gets through we are out, we won't be able to renegotiate it, we can't ask to come back in to discuss coming out. The only way is a second vote - May's deal or no deal BEFORE she signs the UK away especially if Labour get a customs union as part of it. After we leave we can discuss trade but I don't think that the EU will be bothered unless on their terms, the single market is too important for them.

And if that BBC4 documentary was anything to go by the EU wanted recordings of the £39bn bill being agreed, they want that so we can't get out of paying. Screwed yet again.
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Burgerman » 13 May 2019, 18:50

You still dont get it.#

If May's agreement gets through we are out,

Wrong we are 75 percent still in, complete with no seat at the table and 40 billion wasted. About as for from out as its possible to get. Read it.

we won't be able to renegotiate it,

We wont need to. We will just actually leave. With or without the EUs 'permission'!

we can't ask to come back in to discuss coming out.

And why would we need or want to do that? Thats retarded.

The only way is a second vote - May's deal or no deal BEFORE she signs the UK away especially if Labour get a customs union as part of it. After we leave we can discuss trade but I don't think that the EU will be bothered unless on their terms, the single market is too important for them.

A vote for mays deal is remain. So that should be off the table as we already voted leave. As vote for remain is the same. We already voted leave. So your ballot paper has one thing left... LEAVE.
As for eu trade deal afterwards, thats their choice. We are their biggest market. I dont much care as WTO is fine regardless. And they WILL do a deal anyway.

And if that BBC4 documentary was anything to go by the EU wanted recordings of the £39bn bill being agreed, they want that so we can't get out of paying. Screwed yet again.

Only a FOOL or a remainer intending to screw us over would have ever offered that. As I say you have a housewife doing the job that a businessman should be doing, with a bunch of remainers (parliment) shouting in the background. She did it on purpose or she was unbelievably dumb. Like a child.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 45161
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby Lord Chatterley » 14 May 2019, 00:18

wheelie junkie wrote: All those rich emerging economies want to sell to us not us to them and if it was so great a potential why hasn't Fox signed them up? .


Countries no more trade with one another than UK cities. People trade with one another - not countries.

When I buy something from China I pay them with pieces of paper bearing the Queen's portrait. They can't buy stuff with that in China but they can buy stuff from the UK using those pieces of paper because that''s what we use in 90% or our sales in the UK. The more pieces of paper they have the higher demand among them for UK produce because demand = willingness + ability to pay ( econ 101).

Now if the Chinese government in its infinite wisdom wants to discourage UK imports by hurling boulders into its own harbours or imposing special taxes on the importation of UK goods how is that a loss to me?

What we should be doing is adopting unilateral zero tariffs and let our people buy what they want from whoever they want whenever they want.

It's called freedom and I recommend it to all.

LC
Lord Chatterley
 
Posts: 2286
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 13:12

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 14 May 2019, 14:41

I don't think that you get it, if May gets that agreement through we are out, nothing to discuss other than future trade, we can't go back and get our £39bn. Legally it is over all you can do is cry about the result. No more negotiating we left as per the agreement.

Whilst the decision lies with parliament there is a risk that she will wear MP's down, already Leave MP's swapped from voting against to voting for. If we leave it up to them it could get passed eventually. The people should decide not them as they are incapable and as you say are majority remainers. I voted remain but accept the result and just want the best outcome for the UK and that is not May's agreement I'd vote no deal as I am certain many other remainers would.

Our politicians are useless and with more transferred to them we will soon realise just how bad it can get. Fox is a great example, if he is all we have to get new trade deals British industry is screwed.

Burgerman wrote:You still dont get it.#

If May's agreement gets through we are out,

Wrong we are 75 percent still in, complete with no seat at the table and 40 billion wasted. About as for from out as its possible to get. Read it.

we won't be able to renegotiate it,

We wont need to. We will just actually leave. With or without the EUs 'permission'!

we can't ask to come back in to discuss coming out.

And why would we need or want to do that? Thats retarded.

The only way is a second vote - May's deal or no deal BEFORE she signs the UK away especially if Labour get a customs union as part of it. After we leave we can discuss trade but I don't think that the EU will be bothered unless on their terms, the single market is too important for them.

A vote for mays deal is remain. So that should be off the table as we already voted leave. As vote for remain is the same. We already voted leave. So your ballot paper has one thing left... LEAVE.
As for eu trade deal afterwards, thats their choice. We are their biggest market. I dont much care as WTO is fine regardless. And they WILL do a deal anyway.

And if that BBC4 documentary was anything to go by the EU wanted recordings of the £39bn bill being agreed, they want that so we can't get out of paying. Screwed yet again.

Only a FOOL or a remainer intending to screw us over would have ever offered that. As I say you have a housewife doing the job that a businessman should be doing, with a bunch of remainers (parliment) shouting in the background. She did it on purpose or she was unbelievably dumb. Like a child.
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: I voted leave part 2

Postby wheelie junkie » 14 May 2019, 14:56

You seem to not grasp how forex markets work. When you pay them your £ is converted to their currency, look at your bank or cc statement to see it. Even if you could pay in £ they don't spend it here they trade it. It doesn't buy anything just other currencies. Major importer/exporters might hold it and use if they need anything from the UK but that relies on us being competitive or in demand. The more £ foreign countries have the more they control the value of the £. If China decided to sell all its £ the value would drop.

Free market economy should not need duty but government uses it to raise revenue or protect local industry especially from state subsidised industry as in China. Anti dumping duty another example of that.

Countries don't trade with each other but do set the rules for trade, Ideally as free and open as possible. They'll also include quality and standards in that. We have all that to work through unless we initially adopt EU standards.

quote="Lord Chatterley"]
wheelie junkie wrote: All those rich emerging economies want to sell to us not us to them and if it was so great a potential why hasn't Fox signed them up? .


Countries no more trade with one another than UK cities. People trade with one another - not countries.

When I buy something from China I pay them with pieces of paper bearing the Queen's portrait. They can't buy stuff with that in China but they can buy stuff from the UK using those pieces of paper because that''s what we use in 90% or our sales in the UK. The more pieces of paper they have the higher demand among them for UK produce because demand = willingness + ability to pay ( econ 101).

Now if the Chinese government in its infinite wisdom wants to discourage UK imports by hurling boulders into its own harbours or imposing special taxes on the importation of UK goods how is that a loss to me?

What we should be doing is adopting unilateral zero tariffs and let our people buy what they want from whoever they want whenever they want.

It's called freedom and I recommend it to all.

LC[/quote]
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 390
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

PreviousNext

Return to Anything

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests

 

  eXTReMe Tracker