Options for next powerchair

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Options for next powerchair

Postby Glitterfairy » 30 Aug 2016, 12:58

Thinking of my next chair, and have not found many models that would fit my needs apart from the Permobil M400. I have also read up about the Sunrise Medical Jive M Black Edition and the TDX 2 Ultra. Have any of you got/ tried any of these chairs, and how would you rate them? In the online research I've done, the TDX 2 Ultra is the same as the chair I have now, but has 20 degrees more tilt available (50 as opposed to the 30 I have), plus full recline.

It has a wider base than my chair, at 65cm wide vs the 61cm of mine. It has larger batteries too. I very nearly bought the TDX 2 then tried the narrower base, and the narrow base chair fits my current home environment better- the wider base would have been too wide.

I wrote on this forum (Everything Powerchair section) about my experience with trialling the version of the Jive M that came out before the Black Edition I have compared the previous Jive M with the Black Edition, and apart from aesthetics, it seems there's little difference between the two. I know someone who has the Black Edition but she seems reluctant to tell me about the chair or what it is like to use, given my trial of the original Jive M was cut short due to flat batteries. Her attitude is this although I asked out of interest and have know her years.

One reason I am reluctant to consider the TDX 2 or the TDX2 Ultra aside from the frame width is that seating options are limited, with the frame built to the sizes of Matrx seating, although other cushions can be used. I have ruled out Matrx seating for me, as their cushions are low profile foam and gel, and I feel uncomfortable with that type of cushion. I have not felt comfortable or well supported with Matrx Deep backs and anything less contoured does not support me.

My number 1 would be the Permobil for speed options, positioning and seating options (different seating can be used.) I see Permobil charges for things other brands do not, eg calf pads, but have heard the durability and quality of Permobil is far superior to any other brands. Many technicians have confirmed this, and the reason I don't have a Permobil is the cost.

Interested as to what advice you have. My diagnosis is spastic quad CP plus hydrocephalus.
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby Glitterfairy » 30 Aug 2016, 13:17

Another thing- have been told by Invacare that, although there is a narrow base version of the TDX 2 Ultra on the market, Invacare UK promote the Wide Base version more. They said this is because of increased instability with the narrow base if you add the angles of 50 degree tilt & full recline plus 30 cm lift the Ultra has to the narrow base, and the wide base would cope with the weight better.
The Permobil M400 has a narrow base, but the same tilt/ recline, but 20cm elevation, I guess to avoid this problem. Have any of you had instability with the narrow version of the Ultra or the Permobil M400?
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby Burgerman » 30 Aug 2016, 21:15

As mentioned before. Every rehab chair can be ordered 101 ways. A minute change that affects weight, CG position, the angle or position of your seat or legs, a difference in tyres. pressures, programming, battery size, motor option results in a totally different feel. It also affects stability. So nobody can help you here.

The wider chair is not wider for no reason, its because some people need the range. For EG faster speeds require bigger batteries, different motors, controller, programming etc. So that's not a sensible option on the narrower base. Not sure what you mean by stability. All of the choices, you make affect stability. Eg heavy seating. CG position. Suspension settings. programming. From memory, isn't this going to be driven by someone behind you? Which makes most of it pretty much irrelevant.
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby F3Head » 30 Aug 2016, 21:16

I can't comment about the Invacare TDX lineup, but I have the Permobil F3
with tilt, recline, and elevate. I've had no stability issues. I go down a very short three-foot
steep ramp forwards at roughly 12° give or take and it's extremely stable.
I've had it a year now and it's been great. I had a mini-cup switch issue but a simple turn off
and restart of the chair from the battery switch seemed to fix it. It also fits easily into
our Braunability Chrysler XT.

Good luck on your search, F3HEAD
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby rover220 » 30 Aug 2016, 21:42

I don't know why you consider speed so important when you've said your chair is attendant controlled. Anything more than 4mph is a waste if you can get 4 pole motors.
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby Burgerman » 31 Aug 2016, 03:05

Not only a waste, it decreases range.For no purpose. Other than to allow your attendant to run to cross a busy junction. Lenny says its useful for that. Depends how sporting your attendent is!
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby LROBBINS » 31 Aug 2016, 08:47

But even sprinting across a street there's no use in having more than ca. 5 MPH, 8 km/h unless you have a Usain Bolt as your attendant.
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby Burgerman » 31 Aug 2016, 09:32

His world record time set at the 2009 world championships was 9.58 seconds with a top average speed of 10.44 meters per second (23.4 miles per hour). Denny’s statistical analysis—neatly summarized in this Business Insider video—indicates that the peak of human speed might be 10.55 m/s (23.6 mph), which translates to a 9.48-second 100 time. (In this month’s Rio Olympics, Bolt’s 9.81-second 100 time included a 10.19 m/s top speed, or 22.8 mph.)


I suspect that if you can talk him into doing it, that you need a petrol engine. Thats 7mph faster than my BM3 chair!

And it gets worse!

Of course, Bolt isn’t running the exact same speed from starting blocks to final stride—especially given his penchant for coasting through the final few meters. The statistical site DataGenetics broke Bolt’s ’08 gold-medal race into 10-meter splits and extracted his speed at each increment, which showed a peak of 27.3 mph.
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby Glitterfairy » 05 Sep 2016, 08:20

Burgerman wrote:Not only a waste, it decreases range.For no purpose. Other than to allow your attendant to run to cross a busy junction. Lenny says its useful for that. Depends how sporting your attendent is!


My partner does a lot of sport, but there are times when I'm with other people (other caregivers or my parents/ sister) who do less, although my dad and sister are tall so their strides are long. I suppose I think about speed from the point of view of situations where I might need the extra, eg busy junctions or large open spaces like a large park. Also, the only way to get a light/ indicator package on my chair is the 10km/h speed option (motor & light package sold together.) This is obviously a must for night time use, and especially during the months with longer nights.
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby Glitterfairy » 05 Sep 2016, 08:25

Hi everyone, thanks for the pointers. Which model out of the chairs I mentioned would you recommend & why?
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby Burgerman » 05 Sep 2016, 09:33

As mentioned before. Small changes make huge differences. And most chairs can be ordered with lots of options. And set up in many ways. So recommending one over another is pointless. And as a passenger, who isn't even in control, its debatable that you will see much difference between chairs. OTHER than the way they are setup, and in the choice of seating. Small details make a big difference. Its getting this right that's going to matter to you.

If you really use a chair all these options and chair type becomes hyper critical. When you are on beaches, in woods, climbing up illegally steep ramps, getting stuck because of inadequate range, cand wheelie over a hole or curb, or tearing about accurately in confined spaces, everything matters. Control systems, power, torque, cg and balance, tyre type, suspension or fat tyres, programming (as below) and weight, fast charging, durability of motors and gearboxes and much more, all matter to high degree.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4 This is the speed setting, full, I use indoors all the time. I can go uber slow at about 1 inch a minute or at 6mph indoors with accuracy and wheelies. Its down to stick control and programming, and careful setup/cg.

In your case as a passenger almost non of this is relevant apart from programming. Because it wont affect you at all.
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby LROBBINS » 05 Sep 2016, 10:00

10 kmh is app. 6 mph and that is a reasonable maximum speed for attendant driving - too fast for any great distance, but OK (well, maybe a little fast for non-athletes) for a quick spurt to get out of trouble.
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Re: Options for next powerchair

Postby Burgerman » 05 Sep 2016, 10:18

I also may add that in light of the easy curb climbing, and non user driving, and stability, a front drive chair may be a good choice here.

As LROBBINS(above post) uses for his own daughter. Because average speed is low, stability issues not a problem. This I the difference. The above video simply wouldn't be possible with front drive. But that's me, your requirements are different.

EG Permobil F5 (or the smaller F3 one in your case). Mostly because these has a smooth ride by all accounts.

http://www.permobilus.com/f3.php
http://www.permobilus.com/f5.php

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=permo ... hair+f5+f3
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