PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby steves1977uk » 24 Nov 2017, 16:04

The problem your seeing is because the packs voltage is more or less the same as the PSU voltage, so the PL8 gets confused whether to buck or boost. A lower voltage PSU is ok to use, but a higher voltage PSU is preferred since the PL8 has to work less hard trying to boost the voltage. A 27 to 30 volt 40 amp PSU would be better to use.

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 25 Nov 2017, 04:46

steves1977uk wrote:The PL8 gets confused whether to buck or boost. A lower voltage PSU is ok to use, but a higher voltage PSU is preferred since the PL8 has to work less hard trying to boost the voltage. A 27 to 30 volt 40 amp PSU would be better to use.

Steve


BM said it happened only at start .

Instead , I found it lingers through out the entire charge .

Now I set the PSU supply voltage out of that of my charge range; 24V ---- 29V .
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 25 Nov 2017, 09:58

It can keep on switching if you have long cables or a power supply that sags in voltage under load or both...

If 0 resistance cells, cables, and perfect power supplies were possible it wouldnt do it at all.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 25 Nov 2017, 12:58

Sign , seal and deliver . :wave:
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 25 Nov 2017, 17:46

You may need to elaborate a little! :eh:
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 12 Feb 2018, 04:19

shirley_hkg wrote:
steves1977uk wrote:The PL8 gets confused whether to buck or boost. A lower voltage PSU is ok to use, but a higher voltage PSU is preferred since the PL8 has to work less hard trying to boost the voltage. A 27 to 30 volt 40 amp PSU would be better to use.

Steve


BM said it happened only at start .

Instead , I found it lingers through out the entire charge .

Now I set the PSU supply voltage out of that of my charge range; 24V ---- 29V .
goodpost


hanged

IT is important to stay out of the entire charging voltage range . Saw in graph current bounced several times during transition , at 3 times higher than set , 12A jumped to 35A . No good for any part of our system .

Advise to get an adjustable PSU for deploying a PL8 .

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7365&p=114014&hilit=Can%27t+wait+till+holiday#p114014

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby steves1977uk » 24 Feb 2018, 10:38

Downloaded the PL8T firmware update utility and noticed it mentions the PL8v2...

Code: Select all
// Firmware History
// 4.06
// - FEATURE: Added model ID reset API for manufacturing QA app
// 4.05
// - BUGFIX: Battery history upload sometimes skipped
// - BUGFIX: Favorites sometimes not showing in list
// - BUGFIX: Disable Favorites not working if favs already exist
// 4.04
// - BUGFIX: Controller sometimes reports a model ID of UNKNOWN
// - BUGFIX: PL8v2 will auto-start with only balance lead connected (should wait for mains connected)
// - FEATURE: Trickle charge support for NiXX/Pb (both Trickle-only operation and trickle after peak)
// 4.03
// - BUGFIX: Minor UI rendering cleanup (Cell IR warnings, numeric value edit, etc.)
// - FEATURE: 'Show Power Supply Select screen on startup' option
// - FEATURE: Improved grouping/ordering of Settings
// - FEATURE: Optional 'Simplified' UI mode (hides subview details)
// - FEATURE: Feature Controls for restricting capabilities
//    (parallel charging, multi-pack, manual, favorites, rate adjust, clear setup on complete/stop/error, BumpTag/preset editing, settings access, auto-starting)
// 4.02
// - FEATURE: Total power supply input limit (across multiple chargers)
// - FEATURE: Redesigned power supply options screen (simpler and faster)
// - FEATURE: On-the-fly amps adjustment during operation
// - FEATURE: Support for NiXX fallback voltage adjustment (BumpTags, Battery Presets, and Manual)
// - FEATURE: Show 'No Main Power' error when PLT is powered via USB cable
// - BUGFIX: Battery Settings values for a preset are reset to defaults when editing an existing preset
// 3.05
// - BUGFIX: Enable History Upload setting in BumpTag is sometimes disabled
// - BUGFIX: Battery Details option not showing in popup menu
// 3.04
// - FEATURE: Enabled Battery History Upload by default
// - BUGFIX: On rare occasions, invalid CRC errors reported
// 3.03
// - FEATURE: Manual operation support for CCS app unbalanced charges (unified app only)
// - FEATURE: Signaling changes for improved reliability (unified app only)
// 3.02
// - FEATURE: Monitor moved to operation menu to make room for Back/Clear button
// - BUGFIX: Cached batteries are sometimes incorrectly shown as a Preset
// - BUGFIX: Large/invalid cell IR values at beginning of charge
// 3.01
// - FEATURE: Battery Presets support
// - FEATURE: Unbalanced charging support for Manual
// - FEATURE: Per-BumpTag history upload enable setting
// - FEATURE: Support for naming Bump Controller (visible in mobile CCS app soon)
// - BUGFIX: Stopped operations sometimes show as DONE (instead of STOPPED)


Wonder if this is compatible with the PL8v2? :?

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 24 Feb 2018, 10:47

Doubtful.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby hotwheels_75 » 01 Mar 2018, 03:36

BM, is there a list of your PL8 presets somewhere? I can’t seem to find them. I need one for my 8S 24v 96AH pack.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 01 Mar 2018, 04:03

BM - this is the first charge with the new changes to the preset - and dosnt look good to me on the Amps side - the charge was never going to end on its own

it was set for 200mA - never will make it - and line is choppy on the way down CV - it went to the lowest around 280 , 300 and then back up to 600 the highest and back down etc, slowly over time but would never finish on its own so i stopped it

i was going to stop it much sooner but i did see the CAP IN - still moving - actually i was about 37ah returned when i though it would finish soon and it went on to over 40ah - but wasnt going to hit 200mA

so what do you think of this graph ? this is the Combined lead and lithium chair - maybe i should put the preset back to the way it was before

instead of ON and OFF - and 2mv - which is was at now -

it was never this choppy before
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 01 Mar 2018, 04:22

The lead/lithium preset is a compromise. Its set to a lower voltage so that a long time at CV doesent hurtthe lithium. But the lead battery may need it. If the lead is discharged a lot, it can need 8 hours at CV. But And theres an 8 hour limit set. As lead ages the current fails to fall to a very low level. So you could put it back how it was but I doubt it will make it shorter. Its safe at 8 hours regardless. If it was OK before put it back. The addon is smaller and has time to balance because of the lead.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 01 Mar 2018, 04:55

i will put it back - i never had a graph that way before and always finished - it always took time to finish but it reached its Term. point -

now it will never reach it and keep going up and down - and choppy CV also - so not worth it for this - on the full lithium - havnt used the new preset yet
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby steves1977uk » 02 Mar 2018, 13:23

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthr ... itializing

You should ALWAYS power up the charger before connecting any battery packs to avoid issues like in the link above. Just a heads up! :thumbup:

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 02 Mar 2018, 13:39

The majority of chargers, inc mobility chargers should be powered before connecting. Many hobby chargers die a horrible death if you connect the battery first. The PL8 is supposed to be protected from this, unlike hyperions. But still wise to power it first. And in theory you should connect balance before power too.

I never worried about any of this, and now all my hyperions are dead. hanged Took a few years though!

And I have yet to have a fault with my 4 PL8 chargers. And 2 of them are heavily used on drills, cameras, powerchairs, hobby packs, AAs, etc daily. Right now one is charging my van, the other a pair of Nikon camera batteries in parallel. And awaiting in a line theres a chair, and a pile of AA cells from my flash guns and door bell. And a drill. :fencing Then I might do my keyboard/mouse! Yesterday, topped up my 3 multimeter batteries, my quadcopter packs, RC transmitter, the RC Bot, FPV monitor, FPV goggles, and to lots of aaa cells from my house phones. Then I can relax for a bit with everything done other than my automower... And TV / other remotes - all aaa cells.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 02 Mar 2018, 16:14

steves1977uk wrote:https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3040760-PowerLab-6-not-initializing

You should ALWAYS power up the charger before connecting any battery packs to avoid issues like in the link above. Just a heads up! :thumbup:

Steve



yes i always power my Charger first - i only learned about this when i first got the PL 8 - before that - i always though it was safer to first plug it in and then turn on the charger - i never had issues either way - but since getting the first PL 8 - i followed the rule of Charger and PSU _ ON first - then connect the pack

and when done - remove the pack first - then shut off the charger PSU - reverse order - so far so good - going on 3 years this summer
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Mar 2018, 00:14

BM - i made the presets to charge from my chair to the other chair -

one preset is for charging the whole chair combined as one -

the other is just the ADD ON - if for some reason i needed to charge it fast

can you take a look at these presets - tell me if they are OK - or if i missed something

one thing i noticed - i have to pick the Supply i will be using the charger with - i cant pick battery power with one preset and DC power for another preset

so in my case - it would be best to check off battery power before heading out for the day if i may need to charge chair to chair ?

i set it to 35A charge rate - and 60A max out - i never used it past 35A charge - dont want to blow this thing up when i need it the most :)
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 07 Mar 2018, 00:55

Not looked yet. But its better to charge both together. Or when you reconnect the lithium will try and charge the lead... But you can do this way too. But theres a risk of blowing a fuse if you connect a full lithium to a dead lead.

My power supplies are set to bench for the ones sat on the bench, and battery for the ones in my van. But they will work if set to battery on your power supply too. And the other way around. You can just leave it set to power supply if you want. It will be fine. When set to battery it stops charging if the battery supply gets low etc. But you know that you will not be doing that, just a top up. So dont worry. Or just set to battery when you leave. It will work either way. As long as you set low voltage to say 23v or less. Mine are all set to 10. And 40A max input.

The only real danger is that when set to battery, you can also do regenerative discharge. Not at the internal 100w or 10A but at 1440 watts and 40A into the other battery if you wanted! But if you try this on sme power suplies they dont like it! hanged

Mine doesent care. But some are not protected against putting power in. So dont use the battery input setting on your power supplies.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Mar 2018, 01:02

ok thanks - will most likely charge both together - best way -

can i charge at 35A ? i though 25A max for lead MK 24s


let me know when you check the presets - i didnt do anything - just copied them and changed a few things -

i could change all these features on the PL8 if i needed outside - no need for PC ?

i never done it that way and rather have it done before on the PC - before heading out -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 07 Mar 2018, 01:17

24A is the recommended. Less, or more is OK too. Only voltage really matters. But you are in a hurry so full power. And you will be putting most of that into the lithium.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Mar 2018, 02:02

ok - about the cables now -

her chair is stock - not sure what size fuses they have on those batteries - so maybe 40A may not be a good idea -- if fuse blows - then shes stuck -

cables look to be 8AWG and thats what i am using on her chair - to connect the pack to her batteries -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Mar 2018, 02:18

now thinking about it - may not be a good idea to try to charge her chair at high charge rate - no way to know what fuses she has in there and cant risk blowing them -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Mar 2018, 04:13

Cant see what size fuse they used - not sure now if charging fast is a good idea ?

i would think 25A charge is fine or at least 20A since thats already been proven with charger -

but if i charged at 35A - i would think it should work - i would also think those fuses are about 70A - since most breakers on my stock chairs came with a 70A

i may be wrong - last thing i want to do is try to charge her chair with mines at fast rate and blow her fuse - then we are really stuck -

what do you think BM ?
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IMG_20180305_142508.jpg
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 07 Mar 2018, 04:33

Are these the same fuses that are used to drive the chair? If so they will be at least 80A.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Mar 2018, 04:39

Burgerman wrote:Are these the same fuses that are used to drive the chair? If so they will be at least 80A.


yes they are built into the wiring for the battery cables in the photo - fuse on pos and neg cable - its heatshrinked on

my chair has a 70A breaker - the lead combined chair - -

so i should be good at 35A charging then ?
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 07 Mar 2018, 04:48

If driving the chair runs through them, they must be good for at least double what the charger can do. If they were put there JUST for charging, then who knows.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Mar 2018, 04:56

Burgerman wrote:If driving the chair runs through them, they must be good for at least double what the charger can do. If they were put there JUST for charging, then who knows.


on my chair - its in the chair wiring - not on the batteries - - but its on the battery wires on this chair - look at the photo above - and it was on my batteries also with the 646 chair which i went to lithium - and used it for the whole summer not realizing i had no fuse since it was on the lead i removed

now i have a breaker on it 100A - -

no way to know either if its for the chair or just for charging -

cant even look it up -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 07 Mar 2018, 05:16

These fuses can run that chair uphill , so two PL8s in max output cannot burn them .

Just focus on the charging harness .
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Mar 2018, 05:38

Ok. I will use the charge cable I made balAnce etc and power side cable is 10 awg cable. It will be taking power from my chair over the. 10 awg cable should be fine then. This way
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Schultz5905 » 07 Mar 2018, 05:51

Could someone please send me a link to the pl8 presets. Thank You
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 07 Mar 2018, 10:25

What EXACTLY are you charging?
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