PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Power wheelchair board for REAL info!

POWERCHAIR MENU! www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-stuff.htm

PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 06 Dec 2016, 16:43

Ok As Per BM -

Lets use this Section for questions and Answers oh how to use the PL 8 - what all the sections mean and do - etc, -

hopefully this can clear up any fears from users still unsure of how to use the PL 8 - I have to say i was one of them before i got started - now that i crossed the line over to lithium more and more - its vital to my charging and taking care of my chairs -

thanks to BM - for all the presets etc, - i even have another friend asking about lithium - but hes an older man - scooter - not sure if its worth it for him to deal with the PL 8 - but it may be - if hes willing - BM can help me so i can help him in return :)

lets get rolling rolling rolling again :mrgreen:
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 06 Dec 2016, 18:35

So ask away!
But to begin with, for the lifepo4 packs, you should start with my presets. Because they have some hidden settings changed that you cant do. (Voltage upper and lower limits, and the cell voltage gap before the "safety charge" kicks in).
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 40738
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 06 Dec 2016, 19:17

yes - very good - i am using your presets for sure - as i get questions - i will ask you here - One at a time or two :)

will try my best to keep it short simple and clear - not going to be easy :mrgreen:
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 06 Dec 2016, 21:52

Like this.


Tab: Presets
Sub Tab: General
Field: Lock Preset?
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 40738
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 06 Dec 2016, 23:29

OK how strange is this - i just went to use the New PL 8 - i upped the supply tab to 60A - instead of 50A - with the 12v PSU -- and plugged it in -

seems a bit sluggish to talk to PC - once i turned on the power etc, - i started the charge - it was about 23A charging - or 22A - and then in a few Seconds

the PL 8 got real loud - started smoking out the rear Fans - Screen on unit flashed on and off - flames came out the fans - i pulled the bananas out of the unit first and then shut it down on the PSU -

i waited a few - i figure maybe changing that supply tab to 60A maybe wasnt a good idea ? or was a fluke and its a bad unit - or can it be the PSU 12V that did it ?

i went to plug it back in and wanted to check the supply tab to change it back etc, - but once i turned it on the PSU power to the PL 8 - flames smoke out the rear

not good - not sure i want to leave that thing charging alone now - after this -

anything else could have caused this beside just a bad unit ? i called left message - emailed them - and going to pack it ready to return - not going to use that one again -

:o :shock: :( :( :( :(
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 07 Dec 2016, 00:27

expresso wrote:but once i turned it on the PSU power to the PL 8 - flames smoke out the rear



Houston, we have a problem.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 1217
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2016, 00:45

yeah - who knows

how can i check that the PSU is OK 12V ? could that have caused it ?

the only thing i did was change the PL 8 to 60A - figure it would charge at 25A and thats it - now i am worried even when i get a replacement - should i continue to use the 12V PSU - at a lower speed - - lets say 15A charging for 12V PSU - leaving the PL 8 at 50A -


i cant even tell them that i am using a 12V PSU - or upped it to 60A - they may blame me for it - i think its a bad unit - with all the safely in it - it should have just cut off if anything - not burn up -

i wish someone picked up the phone at least there - so i can get this going returned and get a new one -


just finished charging - PL 8 was nice and quiet - nothing like this 2nd - i checked the supply tab on this one and it was at 60A also - i dont remember doing that -

i put it back to 50A to be safe for now -
Attachments
Combined 12-2-16 Volt.JPG
Combined 12-2-16 Amps.JPG
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 07 Dec 2016, 02:13

No idea. But it doesn't sound great. I charge at 14.4v in the van at full power and never an issue. Sure sounds exciting! Has to be faulty. But charging at 60A is stressful for it. Stepping voltage up, always is. It means higher currents. But its supposed to be capable. If in doubt set to 50... See what they say.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 40738
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2016, 16:12

yeah - i wanted to rule out the PSU 12V model - do you think that had anything to do with it ? i dont think so really - i turned it on alone and seems fine - turns on - fan running - green light on the PSU -

i will put it back to 50A for sure - but whats strange is when i went back to my original PL 8 - i plugged it in and checked the Supply Tab - it said 60A also ? that i though was strange - i dont recall touching that section past 50A which i have a screen shot of it showing 50A on it -

so how can that change on its own ? i though the software would show what the actually PL 8 is which is connected at the time -

if i have two Pl 8 - one is set to 50A and one is set to 60A - shouldnt the software show the details of each Pl 8 differently depending on each ones settings ?

i will keep an eye out on that from now on to see how it behaves - i contacted the the guy i got the PSU from - dosnt think its the PSU at fault - says it can handle 75A so it wasnt being stressed at 60A from the PL 8 -

BM - do you keep yours at 60A in the supply tab ?

maybe this is a good Section to start discussing first - the Supply Tab on the Pl 8 -

proper way to set it up - or leave as default -
Attachments
supply.jpg
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 07 Dec 2016, 16:28

Don't think its your PSU since it works with your original PL8. So you just got a lemon with PL8 # 2.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 1217
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby steves1977uk » 07 Dec 2016, 16:49

expresso wrote:OK how strange is this - i just went to use the New PL 8 - i upped the supply tab to 60A - instead of 50A - with the 12v PSU -- and plugged it in -

seems a bit sluggish to talk to PC - once i turned on the power etc, - i started the charge - it was about 23A charging - or 22A - and then in a few Seconds

the PL 8 got real loud - started smoking out the rear Fans - Screen on unit flashed on and off - flames came out the fans - i pulled the bananas out of the unit first and then shut it down on the PSU -

i waited a few - i figure maybe changing that supply tab to 60A maybe wasnt a good idea ? or was a fluke and its a bad unit - or can it be the PSU 12V that did it ?

i went to plug it back in and wanted to check the supply tab to change it back etc, - but once i turned it on the PSU power to the PL 8 - flames smoke out the rear

not good - not sure i want to leave that thing charging alone now - after this -

anything else could have caused this beside just a bad unit ? i called left message - emailed them - and going to pack it ready to return - not going to use that one again -

:o :shock: :( :( :( :(


Woah, that's scary! :o Don't suppose you saw how much current it was trying to pull from the 12v PSU? Sounds like you got a bad unit. Maybe think about a 15v PSU to be on the safe side.

Steve
User avatar
steves1977uk
 
Posts: 2035
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:47
Location: Wells next the Sea, Norfolk, UK

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2016, 16:58

Gnomatic wrote:Don't think its your PSU since it works with your original PL8. So you just got a lemon with PL8 # 2.



yes your right - now that i am thinking about it - i did use my first PL 8 the very first time with the 12V PSU and it charged at 20A more or less - i didnt see what the supply Tab was set at then - either 50A like the picture shows - or i upped it to 60A after i took that screen shot - since it was at 60A when i checked yesterday

which means - the new PL 8 - was actually just used ONCE - and it burned up - PSU is good for 75A - i confirmed it with seller - i just got off the phone with teach and waiting for RMA email -

the tech mentioned that some PSU are having issues with the PL 8 - forgot the name he mentioned - but its not the one i have - he said its fine to use 60A in the supply Tab giving the PSU can give more than 60A -

also he mentioned to disconnect the battery from the charger BEFORE shutting off the PSU Charger etc, - Now that i didnt know before - and i wasnt doing it that way -

When the charge was complete - i would stop the software - and shut off the power strip with PSU - which shuts everything off - and would disconnect the DB25 connected to my chair LAST - he says it should be done First before shutting off the Charger PSU etc,

well news to me - i been doing that from the start - i wont now -

it must be a bad unit - was just scary - makes me worry - dont want to leave that thing going overnight now - i got used to loud speed of the fan when charging at 35A - no worries - now i have to get used to it again and will be keeping an eye out -
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2016, 17:06

@ Steve -

well its done now - i got the 12V PSU - its 900 Watts - should be fine - but dont feel its going to charge past 20A for some reason -

i wonder if the supply low voltage limit needs to be upped when using the 12V model ? its set at 10V -


Called tech again - was told 10V limit low voltage is fine for the 12V PSU - But that i should set it to 20V when using the 24V PSU - i did not know this before - it was always left alone at 10V

this is something i need to change also with the 24V PSU - which means i have to remember which charge is set to which low voltage limit - if mixing the charger up between both PSU - may be a sticker on each one to mark it so i can see before using
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby steves1977uk » 07 Dec 2016, 17:09

I always get my Mum, Brother or Carer to turn on the PL8 before plugging it in to the chair and once the charge is complete, unplug from the chair first before switching off the PL8.

Steve
User avatar
steves1977uk
 
Posts: 2035
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:47
Location: Wells next the Sea, Norfolk, UK

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 07 Dec 2016, 17:13

well its done now - i got the 12V PSU - its 900 Watts - should be fine - but dont feel its going to charge past 20A for some reason -

i wonder if the supply low voltage limit needs to be upped when using the 12V model ? its set at 10V -


That 10V is the point where it will stop charging if it drops lower... 12V is only 2 volts higher so it must be set to 10.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 40738
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2016, 17:16

steves1977uk wrote:I always get my Mum, Brother or Carer to turn on the PL8 before plugging it in to the chair and once the charge is complete, unplug from the chair first before switching off the PL8.

Steve


i didnt know this and thats the correct way to do it - i will also do it this way from now on
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2016, 18:02

Burgerman wrote:
well its done now - i got the 12V PSU - its 900 Watts - should be fine - but dont feel its going to charge past 20A for some reason -

i wonder if the supply low voltage limit needs to be upped when using the 12V model ? its set at 10V -


That 10V is the point where it will stop charging if it drops lower... 12V is only 2 volts higher so it must be set to 10.


yes i realize that - but all this time - i been using a 24V PSU - i should be setting that setting to 20V ? as per PL 8 tech -
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby steves1977uk » 07 Dec 2016, 18:26

I've always left mine at 10v, regardless which PSU I use.

Steve
User avatar
steves1977uk
 
Posts: 2035
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:47
Location: Wells next the Sea, Norfolk, UK

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 07 Dec 2016, 19:23

Same. Because I use in in my van, and when not needing full power set my power supplies to 12 or 15 volts as its quieter.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 40738
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2016, 22:24

Ok i guess i can leave it at 10V - - it was just a bad unit -

packed and returning tomorrow - - i didnt expect it at all - but glad it was bad on first shot - better than going bad 6 months from now - i should be getting a New One in exchange - not a repair job -
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 07 Dec 2016, 23:15

expresso wrote:but glad it was bad on first shot - better than going bad 6 months from now - i should be getting a New One in exchange - not a repair job -


Seems to me that with most electronics, if they fail, usually fail when you first get them or are pretty new.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 1217
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 08 Dec 2016, 10:23

Charging full power to 8S from 12v is the hardest it can work though. So maybe it doesn't like it... Works fine in my van though. May be safer to set 50A max input.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 40738
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 08 Dec 2016, 16:38

[quote="Burgerman"]Charging full power to 8S from 12v is the hardest it can work though. So maybe it doesn't like it... Works fine in my van though. May be safer to set 50A max input.[/quote

well i used the first PL 8 i had which i been using all summer long - with the 12V PSU the very first time with this 12V - i didnt remember but the PL 8 was set to 60A - i guess i must have changed it after i took the screen shot of the supply tab

anyway - with that set at 60A - it was charging at 20A rate - more or less - the PSU is good for 75A - as per the seller - so even at 60A from the PL 8 - should be fine -

i will put the first PL 8 back to 60A if i changed it and leave it - or try it at 50A and see what it can do - i am almost afraid to use the working PL 8 with the 12V PSU - - it must have been a bad unit - because it was the very first time i went to use it and it happened -

i may just use the 12V and charge at a lower rate anyway - 15A maybe - i am just curious what it can do Max - - so i know - dont have to charge all the time at 25A not going far now - not being drained much - i charge it ever few days

the full pack chair - i havnt used in a few months - i may recharge that one maybe next year :)
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 19 Dec 2016, 19:13

While I am in teaching mode!!!

Ni-Cad and Nickel Metal Hydride batteries, like the Eneloop AA and AAA cells, or the ones in older power tools, cameras, etc are different to lead and lithium in that when you charge them they have no correct voltages. So they are charged at Constant fixed Current only. So you feed them say 1000mA as here, below and watch what the volts do... These batteries are strange in that the voltage climbs as they charge, and while still charging at the same rate, it begins to fall again. The point where they are FULL is the top of the mountain... The highest point. So when voltage starts to fall you should stop the charge. The PL8 does this automatically.

You set what called the DELTA PEAK voltage drop. So I set it to 6mV per cell. Then as soon as voltage falls by 6mV X cell count, past the highest point (the peak) it cuts off the charge.

So dont even try to charge in parallel. And only in series, at about 1/3rd to 1/2 C or under 1A for a 2Ah battery.

Heres what that looks like on an 8S AA battery, in my RC transmitter.
Attachments
Image1.gif
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 40738
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 19 Dec 2016, 19:30

Got my New PL 8 exchange today - will set it up later with all the Presets you made for me BM - wont need to charge till end of week really - hopefully this one works and no BBQ flames this time :)
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 19 Dec 2016, 20:33

Well we will see.

It will either be fine.
Or...
It will be that they never tested it at 40A 8S and 12V supply... Because that draws a LOT of amps! :lol:

Why the hell is that image so big above? :roll: My laptop has a silly resolution, and rescales. So it might be up to quad HD! Will have to watch that.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 40738
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 19 Dec 2016, 20:41

later tonight i will open the box and install the presets - will leave the supply tab section alone - will see what it is first - should be set at 50A from factory they told me -

i will charge at 15A with the ADD ON Chair and see - then next time will try 20A just to see whats the max it can do with the 12V and PL 8 at 50A in the supply tab

thats fine if it does that - or i can try 25A next afterwards - see where it takes me - this is on the ADD ON chair - lead and 36ah lithium -


i may use it for the full pack also one day - unless i want to charge faster - then will use the 24V PSU and 35A - when i use the chair alot in the summer time - i may just cut it down to about 25A also for the full pack if i have the time for it -

i dont want to leave it charging overnight - as long as its done charging before i get to bed - its fine - if it takes a few extra hours - or else 35A and done in a few hours easy :)
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 19 Dec 2016, 20:47

When you say 20A and 25A or 35A etc, it sounds like a lot to lead chair users. Because they are used to charging at nightly 5A or 7A or 8A at the highest.

But what they don't realise is that you are putting back THREE TIMES the range that they are. So really, you need to do it at 3x the rate. 3x 8A = 24A... So your chargers and power supplies need to be 3x as big.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 40738
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 19 Dec 2016, 22:10

yes - those small chargers - dosnt do it for me - it worked fine at the very start - early on as a wheelchair user -- but once i started to settle down and start to really use the chair outdoors - riding - exploring a bit - then get home in Red -

having one chair at that time - when i got the 2nd chair - was much better to charge one and use the other - eventually i went to the 20A charger for lead at first for a while - that at least got me full faster - not correctly as it does now with the PL 8 - till i finally crossed over into lithium PL 8 - no going back

i will tailor my charging speeds according to the days usage etc, - even with the full lithium chair - if one day its only light use - i will recharge at slower 15A speeds - most likely it wont be used lightly any longer knowing what i can do and where i can go - easy 20 miles daily - thats the light usage :)

if i do more than 20 Miles etc, i just recharge at 35A to get it done and ready for next day - the ADD ON with lead - i can leave that at 15A - wont be using that too much i dont think -

this would sound like ALOT to me also before i learned more about it here - Slow is fine i guess if you have the time and dont mind -
Quickie P222se - 60ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 100ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 6291
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17
Location: NYC - NY

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 19 Dec 2016, 23:19

Once you learn, you see how crap all the rest is... And you cant unlearn!
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 40738
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Next

Return to Everything Powerchair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: shirley_hkg, snaker and 44 guests

 

  eXTReMe Tracker